Which wire connection is more reliable - Wago clamps or twisting? Real test history

I additionally solder the twist.

A very interesting practical observation. Many thanks to the author.

But the most important conclusion for me is that the “waggons” cope with the nominal load, contrary to conventional wisdom.

The best connection is the Chinese twist))

Thanks to the author!

Yes, I agree, with a rated current with VAG clamps there are no problems, if only not to run into low-quality ones

Thank you for the experiment, and then a lot of advertising custom articles on the site.

vitaliy, all articles about Vago clips that were published on the site before that were not "advertising and custom-made." I do not publish paid articles on the site. An article can be published only for free, and if the article meets all the requirements set forth here: https://e.imadeself.com/en/article.html

A series of articles about Vago products was created because I just treat contacts with flat spring clips very well and try to give as much objective information as possible about them.

Thanks to the author for the article. I myself use only twisting with soldering. Reliably worth a year, even on the street (subject to good isolation). And the connectors are good where there is access to them and the possibility of periodic monitoring.

Everything that you described is true, with the exception of the deterioration of the contact on the twist over time. In no case should the twist be left unsoldered or welded, after three years, or maybe less, the twist without welding will significantly deteriorate the contact, and WAGO will not. The time spent twisting and soldering it is commensurate on an industrial scale with WAGO, so put it in and have no doubt. But if you anticipate excessive loads (for example, a garage or another room, where it is often excessive current rating and the machine may not work for one reason or another), twisting is better (obligatory with welding or solder).

Here they’ve been torturing for five years ...  

The test results are quite logical and easily explainable both in theory and in common sense.
The contact area when connecting the Wago clamp = the area of ​​two points, or, if the clamp is a collet, then 4 to 6 points. When twisting, the contact area = the area of ​​the strip, the length of which is equal to the length of the twist. It is clear that when twisting, the contact area is several times larger. But it must be understood that over time, as a result of numerous heating-cooling, the twist seems to “loose”, i.e. weakens, and the clamping force of the spring contacts does not change. All this, of course, subject to acceptable operating conditions.

At one time, when the clamps had just appeared, I did the same experiment, only without using control devices, and got the same result.

Therefore, in all critical places - twist with solder-welding, in other non-critical - WAGO clamp.

By the way, at rated current and continuous operation, the WAGO clamp starts to heat up and melts. I saw this a week after turning on the load.

I also admit the twist with respect to the convenient Wago, in practice, I was convinced after a year of the second branching (Wago melt, maybe the left or the oxide can be cleaned additionally). But according to the PUE 2.1.21. Connection, branching and termination of conductors of wires and cables should be carried out by crimping, welding, soldering or clamping (screw, bolt, etc.) in accordance with applicable instructions approved in the established manner. In this case, it turns out closer to the twisting of the siza.

All is well, but still do not forget that non-fixed twisting is indeed illegal. So even if twisting and steers what I didn’t doubt much, subsequent fixation by welding, soldering, pressure testing, bolting, PPE, etc. required. But in the light, VAGs will still steer, especially in the speed of installation and non-qualification of the installer, by the way the author was a little mistaken, there are VAGs for flexible wires.

The topic was already discussed when some "teachers" actively advertised "Vago", but still I repeat. And thanks to the author. I would just like to repeat the tests, say, in a year or two. I assure you, the result will be much more deplorable for Vago. It is not clear why the author has such high currents, apparently low voltages. As for the twists, I use the ordinary twist. I have nothing against her welding. But here for the soldering of twists, I am suspiciously negative. Soldering, these are two different metals (alloys), roughly speaking, a bimetallic compound, with all that it implies. No "bolt clamps", - the twist is deformed, ceases to be twist + a second metal is added. I assure you, do not try to invent a bicycle! In Latvia, on the coast, humidity is rarely less than 70-80%. Properly made twists have been standing for more than 20 years without complaints.

I want to add - any soldering involves the presence of a flux. That is, - an acid that, when heated, manages to get even under insulation. Well and further, "by notes", - copper + acid + atmospheric moisture. I think the final result is clear.

Mda ...

Perhaps you can summarize, everyone who has practical experience in using both twists and clamps Vago opinion so far one-

if you need a reliable connection without problems in the future, then we use twisting with welding

if the current is within the rated value and there is further access to the wire connections for monitoring and revision, Wagi can be used.

Thanks. Very clear. I used twisting without soldering while it passed. Work experience of 30 years. I knew about terminal blocks, but we don’t have them. I'll try welding. Requirements tighten everything. And how they worked the old fashioned way, they work. Electrician in dirty special clothes. Nippers, strips, wire cutters, electrical tape and the requirement is that everything spin. This is reality.

Unsure of that. It is known that air is the best heat insulator and that solid materials have significantly higher thermal conductivity. This may be the task for the next experiment.
In the test, the twist was significantly longer than the wagon. This is not entirely fair.
It would be interesting to see the tests: long twist - short twist, twist - twist with a springy insulated wrap and twist with a spring - connection block like a counter.

The only controversial point is that the wires in the air have better cooling than the wires under the plaster. The PUE says the opposite.

Thanks! The article is wonderful. The author not only told, but also proved. He doubted himself, but now doubts have disappeared. It's nice when a professional gives advice. Colleague thank you.

Yes, the twist is longer, but it is covered by a PVC pipe, which significantly impairs cooling, and the car is completely open.

The goal of the test was to try RIGHT made twisting and wagon.

Michael,

As the same wagon is open if it is all in plastic. I read that for the passage of current, the relative beginning of the contact point is important. If so, it turns out that while nothing is being heated, a long twist is meaningless. As it warms up, further turns of twisting begin to work. Who can say what length of twist is correct. I think it would be right to experience twisting commensurate with the car on the occupied place in the distribution box.

Air passes through the Vagovsky clamp freely - it is not tight, and the twist is tightly packed into a tube.
And what does it mean commensurate with vago? That is, 12 mm long or the same length as the point contact of the car? Here, the cross-section also depends on - or 1.5 sq. Mm twist by 12 mm or 4 sq. Mm - the number of turns will be different ..

As for the long twist and the relative beginning of the place of contact - I agree.

In any case, if we do it for a long time and reliably, the best connection is twisting with subsequent welding. I consider Wago to be a fairly reliable connection, subject to the operating conditions laid down by the manufacturer of this clamp.
I also want to remind you that only twisting without welding is prohibited. This is due to the oxidation of the conductors and the fact that some craftsmen allow the connection of copper and aluminum! Failure to do so will often cause fires!
Wago, in turn, is filled with anti-oxidation grease and allows copper to be bonded to aluminum.

Denis, I fully support.

By twisting still - sometimes twisting is clamped weakly - either by inexperience or by slovenliness, this also contributes to the heating of the transition contact, which often leads to sad consequences later, even to a fire.

I mean copper wires. I am generally silent about aluminum, it at currents close to the nominal value and more "shrinks" and if you do not tighten the connection burns out ...

I think that this is another reason why the twisting on the PUE is illegal.

Vago is only for lighting networks up to 10 A. So, professional advice is a practice, not a bookworm ...

John white,
Some practices, it would not hurt, to better dig into the books!
WAGO has a terminal for 3 cables with cross-section up to 6mm2 - and this is far from 10A!
EKF produces such terminals already in China - only the original is needed.
In the test, an opaque terminal filled with paste for aluminum wires was used (i.e., an Al / Cu thermocouple can form inside and heat up accordingly)
Copper terminals with a transparent cap and colored bases.
WAGO has terminals for uncompressed stranded wires up to 2.5mm2 (with orange levers)
And most importantly, the spring-loaded contact provides the same clamping action throughout the entire service life (for VAGO 50 years) of service, and the twist after hundreds of heating / cooling cycles is slowly unraveling, i.e. This test will change significantly after 5 years of operation!
SW "PRACTICES" Do you know that a bolted connection (for example, in a socket or switch) must be pulled out every 2 years for safety reasons?

Tell me, why do we need AB? at 30A, wires in 1.5mm will start to warm up, and Vagovsky terminal blocks are designed for a rated current of 30A.

Wago yes comfortable. But I can’t say anything in their defense. It would be possible to look at this connection at least 10 years later under real working conditions.

Lord electricians! Professionals and beginners! Let me repeat again: the goal of this experiment was to MAKE SURE that the transition resistance of the twist is less even without welding than the Wago clamp!

Which I showed  

John White - the test uses a clamp without any paste! Well there was nothing there except a spring-loaded contact!  

Michael, Thank you for the article! Twisting, with soldering in a tin bath + shrink tube = reliable, beautiful, economical!

I also give preference to twisting, only I have it 4 cm minimum, I’m only interested in where you found such sockets that hold 30 or more ???????

The experiment is certainly informative, but it’s like in that joke about the imported chainsaw in the Russian logging. The forest is sawing well, but it has broken off on concrete sleepers. Therefore, the Bulgarian is better.
Auto RU. You need to experiment with the currents that are registered on WAGO, and you have killed 80 amperes. Those trays that withstand 20 amperes maximum in the photo and it is written on them. You would have connected the power lines with them, and then said how bad they are.

P.S. Select the section of wires, automatic machines, terminal blocks designed for the load that you want to put on them.
Set up adequate experiments.

Respect huge to the author !!! Experience is indicative. I have been involved in electrical installation, dismantling and all kinds of alterations in electric networks for quite a long time, including "apartment wiring". The experience in this area is substantial. With all responsibility, I can say that I am an adherent of ONLY twists (maximum with welding). In the course of my activity, I even met aluminum twists with an “age” of more than twenty-five years - without any burning and characteristic signs of “weakening” of contact! And this is subject to an increase in the used load currents in our time. At the same time, I very often met burnups of all types of “newfangled” methods of connecting wires with a very short service life (a year or two) using a maximum of rated currents. Personally, my conclusion is that the quality of the connection when twisting depends on the professionalism of the installer and the quality of the wire, the quality of the connection when using various types of clamps and terminals only depends on the manufacturer's assurances and, in addition, depends on a rather large number of accidents!

Thank you for confirming that allowed WAGO currents are better than twisting.

For flexible wires, just another type of wago terminal is gray-orange. I always use them when I need to connect a soft wire to a hard one.

Strictly speaking, the experience is dumb. It’s stupid to put Vagov terminals on triple currents. The author is trying to compare the 19th century with the 21st, a kind of perversion to watch how things die with a triple overload. Now other requirements for wiring. In addition to reliability, efficiency and aesthetics are appreciated.

bravo and thanks !! unfortunately this is not read by those who compose the PUEs and they are not read by the “cool” firemen who go with the check and look for twists but it is a pity !!!

Alex,
+1
And what, in "overloaded" garages, etc., professional electricians do not use devices to protect electrical networks from overload? The choice of circuit breaker is 1.15 In, and the fuse-link is 1.25 In. How do professionals achieve insulation melting currents?

“In the course of my activity, I even met aluminum twists with an“ age ”of more than twenty-five years - without any burning and characteristic signs of“ weakening ”of the contact!”

Maybe this line was never used or the loads were minimal. You do not have such information, where such conclusions come from.

I am a beginner by experience, I did little with my own hands, but I saw a lot of things, as they do in reality. The installer got up not standing legs and you have a bad twist. From this point of view, Wago clamps are more reliable, the connection is less dependent on the hands of the installer. But I think that the right thing is twisting + welding.

According to the experiment, it’s still not a pure experiment, because the twisting is done with a current margin, and the Wago clamp is taken for a certain current.

I mean, make twisting a couple of turns less or take a Wago clamp for a larger current and the result of the experiment will be different.

I agree with the author of the article. I tried to use WAGO together with AD-32 (differential automatic). The result made me very upset; the BP started to turn off spontaneously even in the absence of load. It turns out that WAGO does not provide reliable contact creating leakage currents. Everything returned to normal when switching to twisting.

I think the experiment is fairly honest. You forget where we live! In the Post-Soviet space! And by this stupidity, people are still above the roof! And triple overload is not something superreal. So where Vago rescues, the twist will survive!

The temperature is not measured accurately, since the twist has less area. And from this distance, the area of ​​the measurement spot is larger than the area of ​​the measured area.

There is one point not taken into account by the author. In addition to the transition resistance, wago terminals do not have such a strong contact as on a twist. We tighten the twist with pliers and in the wago terminals (especially those that are presented without clamping levers), a small spring connects the wires. Hence the increased heat.

P.S. According to the PUE: Clause 2.1.21. Connection, branching and termination of conductors of wires and cables should be carried out by crimping, welding, soldering or clamping (screw, bolt, etc.) in accordance with applicable instructions.

those. twisting is not prohibited but not allowed.

I work in operation and eliminate defects in the process, and here's what I say 80% bolts and other connections are heated and oxidized, and the twisting is much less common, so few installers know about VAGO clamps

Evgeny,
Worse, they are more expensive, and to make the twist a little longer than to fasten the wagon.

Example: installation of lighting in a bank branch; approximately 10 lamps sit on one lighting group, i.e. in one box there will be 5-6 ends (the more boxes, the longer the installation time).Question: how do I shove 3-4 Vagovsky terminal blocks into a 10x10 10 box and even all the wires? The answer is to throw out the terminal blocks and make twists, believe me much easier and more compact (and more reliable). And in time, well, let it be 2 minutes longer!

“In the course of my activity, I even met aluminum twists with an“ age ”of more than twenty-five years - without any burning and characteristic signs of“ weakening ”of the contact!”

I confirm that my house is 30+ years old, I repair, open the boxes, wiring lyum, insulation as from a store, only cockroaches crap, that I didn’t connect and conduct tests to these outlets as an author, but I think it’s corny marketing, electricians also want to eat, bulk replacement of wires on copper steers))))

Here in Khrushchev, everything is sadder, but that's another conversation ...

The author is just fine! For more convincing evidence, it was necessary to take a wire for twisting with a cross section five times larger and give a current of amperes of commercials under 200 ... In general, as in the old joke about a Japanese sawmill. They gave the fool a wire in his hands, but he was not trained in the methodology of the experiment. Not to mention the fact that with point-to-point wiring and proper design of the power supply network, the current in each section cannot, in principle, exceed the permissible values ​​- any of the machines will work. But this is - horror - you need to think. Therefore, if you pull one line along the object and hang on it in the boxes of all consumers - surely only twisting and welding, and let insulation melt, let people suffer, do not care - an electrician has already fallen from the object .... Sovdepovschina, pancake...

In my experience, WAGO clamps do burn out over time. I needed to connect in my apartment an aluminum wire 2x2.5 (entrance to the apartment) with copper 2x2.5, the flowing current does not exceed 16A (gas stove with electric oven + even small things), the connection had to be done under the ceiling. At first I used Wago clamps, and it’s exactly like they were tested here (filled with paste), the connection was in the air. So, after half a year or a year, on one awkward day, the junction began to smoke, and only Wago itself melted and slightly insulated the wires near it. There was nothing but the Wago at hand, and the hand did not rise to twist between copper and aluminum, as a result, again stripped the wires and put the same Wago. The result is about a year more of a quiet life and the same story again! Moreover, both the neutral wire and the phase clamps melted approximately the same, it turned out approximately as in the photo, only the insulation of the wires remained intact. For the third time, instead of the terminal block, I just put the dual machine on 16A (as a temporary measure) until I found a better solution. I think maybe WAGO 222 series to try?

About 4 years ago, copper + aluminum was connected (the cross section of both conductors did not correspond to the load) through the WAGO terminal blocks. There are no problems to this day. IMHO, when connecting homogeneous materials, under normal load, you can do twisting (where without it). In more serious compounds, it is preferable to use wago.

The tests would be more real if the current were not constant, but changed (as in real life) - then with maximum load, then without load. Under such conditions, the twist will lose to the Wag terminal, that's why: when heated, the conductors expand, causing voltage at the junction, then cool and a micro-gap forms, the contact area decreases, and with subsequent load, the heating will be larger, which will increase the gap during cooling, etc. . The spring terminal in this case is more stable, but it is necessary to install the wire without damaging the geometry in order to ensure maximum contact of the wire to the terminal contact.

You write
> competent made twisting is no worse than modern wago clamps
This is the first (and possibly last) time I encounter a wire connection. Make a twist exactly competently the first time, probably, it won’t work out. What do you advise: to use a vaga or take a chance with a twist?
Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the interesting experience and article. I agree that with serious changes in load from zero to the maximum allowable (by electrical wiring or automatic protection), which happens at all of us at home (during the day there is no one at home - nothing works, in the evening everyone is at home - all electrical appliances are turned on at once) gradual weakening of twisting. That is why it is impossible to twist without PPE. I agree with the fact that twisting is more difficult to install - it is easier to tighten or break off. Ideally, the twist should be boiled. Twist you need to isolate.
In favor of VAGO - aesthetics, speed, simplicity. Minus WAGO - the price.
Concerning currents above rated and short-circuit currents - there are protection devices for this.
p.s. There is always a chance to run into a fake. The crooks are not asleep.

The guaranteed operating current of the C10 circuit breaker is from 100 A, for the C16 circuit breaker it is over 160 A. And God forbid that they would work on electromagnetic protection in 0.1 sec, and not on thermal in 5 sec.
Copper lugs on aluminum cables such as ASB or AAB with a cross section up to 240 mm2 were previously used only by soldering. It is not always possible to “weld” a twist, but to solder, it is possible, which I use, though only by necessity.

I forgot to add: under K.Z.

For an electrician who is professionally involved in electrical work, in particular the installation of electrical wiring, terminal blocks Wago the most optimal option. One of the arguments in favor of terminal blocks of this type is ease of installation and, accordingly, a significant reduction in time for electrical work. As for the cost, in this case it pays off by a significant saving of time, for which the electrician can do more work and, accordingly, earn more money.

When I installed the wiring at home, I preferred to connect the conductors in the junction boxes by soldering. The only negative in this case is the lack of the ability to parse the contact connection. If in the junction box in the future it is planned to connect an additional wiring line or replace an existing one, then I make a sufficient supply of wire and connect the conductors by soldering. In the future, if you need to connect another wiring line, I remove the soldered twist and reconnect the necessary conductors by soldering.

Twists with welding are afraid of those who can not turn everything off right the first time. Twisting-steers! it has been tested for decades. Everything else is lyrics.

If you take physics and combine it with chemistry, you will come to only one conclusion: if everything is done right, then copper should be with copper and there should not be any extra components (this is about soldering), the oxidizing agent really interferes and microcracks appear, it will not affect the light, but a load of more than 1.5 kW will play a trick over time, so the safest connection of copper wires is twisting with crimping, to use copper sleeves of good quality - nothing more reliable has been found so far. Aluminum in the same way. At the cosmodrome, where the launch loads are very high, all the electrical wiring of the wires was carried out only by twisting + a sleeve with crimping. There is a special table where and how many bars for crimping are used depending on the clipping of the wire.

The truth is somewhere nearby ... For more than 30 years he was engaged in the installation of electrical wiring in production and at home, and some observations arose:
- twist joints made not on December 31 pass the test of time under both normal and extreme conditions. I met twists in my practice that withstand currents of 63 amperes for 20 years of aging from copper and aluminum, and I did not observe any weakening and self-unwinding!
- I use Wago terminal blocks only at face value, and where they allow their revision. In closed joints (under gyrocrete, concrete) I use twisting.
- Vago loves a lot of space, and in densely populated distribution boxes I use twist with heat-shrink by color - it clearly and more breaks.
- a good twist has the right to life and has proved this, Wago is also a reliable element, and both connections are right for use in installation.
- Each has its own truth .. I connected hundreds of kilometers of wires, introduced terminal blocks both screw and self-clamping, but if connection is required for centuries - I do twisting, for low currents - I can put the terminal block.

Why do you need a 2.5 mm cable, after 50 A and 90 degrees? Do you think the line after this mode is suitable? Shovel surrogate, not an electrician. Remember: load + transmission element + protection element = reliability! The cable should correspond to the load, and the machine should be protected from exceeding the nominal mode. Otherwise, you will continue to hammer nails with your forehead and share your experience))

I make twists as they were done dozens of years ago. For firefighters, twist the welds, where firefighters will not check without welding. And I’m sure that these twists will stand as those still standing that are made 20-30 years ago. And who saw Vago, who stood for at least 10 years? From many years of experience I know that all bolted-screw connections must be serviced, otherwise they burn, and a well-made twist does not need maintenance. And talk about the fact that twisting is weakened by heating-cooling can and have ground, but this weakening is not so great as to critically increase the transition resistance on a twist contact area of ​​5 cm long

Let my vag melt and shorten than all the wiring will burn because of the "super reliable" twist!

From my own experience, I know that there was and will be a twist ... you just need to use the blues with it, the best is the sleeve. Conductors should not be heterogeneous, otherwise you need to use terminal blocks, which in size can not be located everywhere.

Vago are comfortable, small-sized but there are several but ...! For example, a one-piece wagon with paste and without it melts at rated currents above 10 A with a cross-section of a core of 2.5 copper, the automatic line 16A does not work, of course, until it is short ...

The reason is banal bad contact and you can’t visually determine until it starts to melt, these wagons do not always provide a sufficient contact spot and clamping force to the wire core, and the original wagons are not fake. A transparent washer was connected through copper, melted, replaced with a wagon with orange latches, they were reusable. The vein is pressed well + it can be connected to a soft wire like pvc, ideal for connecting lamps and light-loaded sockets, sometimes I put it in junction boxes with an automatic machine along the line of 20A. Attention there are copies of fakes for them, they are called SMK, they still suck, connect a maximum of the chandelier, often they are defective and are pressed badly.

Vago with aluminum paste also melts under loads of more than two kilowatts, no problems were noted in the lines of the lamps ...

Of course, experience in a year and a half is not enough for me, but it’s not uncommon to have to fix someone else’s shoals of professional electricians ... the whole thing in relation to work in the capabilities and the availability of necessary consumables is better slowly but surely and correctly as a sapper. It’s nice when a professional electrician from a local electricity distribution company praises the installation, he can more) mount substations, climb poles, while the installation rules do not always comply with the rules for electrical installation.

Kirill,
You know, I have the experience of an unprofessional electrician — I was in the modern army — a battalion commander (after learning that he was engaged in electrical work in civilian life) “offered” me to remake an electrician in his room. I, as a responsible soldier, remade him all the electrics in the room with the help of the wagon clamps. For a while everything went well, then he began to pry me - why does the room stink of plastic? But since the teachings were going on, he could not pull me off them. And now the long-awaited moment - the end of the exercises coincided with the disappearance of the smell of plastic. The battalion commander does not jerk me - everything is fine! But I became interested in what was the reason and I came to the battalion commander’s home on my own responsibility. Opening the wiring, I saw a wagon without plastic (it stupidly evaporated). You can spit that a normal electrician will check the entire circuit and calculate everything - but then I understood one thing (there are even more stupid electricians than me and judging by the comments of you most) the whole floor was electrified in series, and the battalion commander’s room was the first from the shield (accordingly, you you know what), after there was a story alteration, but for tangible money) Why all this - Vagi at 10 amperes withstood a periodic load (at night) of 40 amperes for 21 days even though they lost all insulation. And for lovers of twisting - do you know how ceramic fuses explode, or how do legendary or military-machine guns burn? And in general, what kind of woodpecker (I will not call him an electrician) gives four-row loads on the cable? (you still throw yourself 220 on a twisted pair and be surprised then: why did my computer burn out?) An electrician is not the person who stupidly connects the wires - but the one who calculates the loads, resistance and amperage (just Ohm’s law).

Does anyone really use the wagi 222 series? Can someone comment on their quality?

Well, at least one sane person was found. Straight expressed my thoughts.

If you translate into sophism, it will look like this (I mean that won, wag or twist). The competition of professional skill between electricians, with the names of Vasya, was taken by 100 people and Petya, also 100 people. The first three places were taken by Vasya. And the conclusion is that if an electrician Petya came to you, chase him in the neck, he’s crooked-handed (despite the fact that from 4th to 27th all places are behind Petya) Somehow))

What a crazy test ???

1. 80A you will never have in a regular household outlet !!!!! because protection will work (in simple terms).

2. Even if it didn’t work, thanks to such a reliable twist you will have the entire cable in the circuit warmed up. Well, the fire is provided to you.

3. The twist when you try to unwind you are likely to break the core.

4. It is almost impossible, when adding sockets, for example, to fasten the core normally to the twist. Only from above and with all the ensuing problems.

Clips provide a high-quality connection with the possibility of its dismantling without loss of quality and length !!! veins. And these snot on electrical tape in a box are remnants of the past.

Everything has already been invented and spend 500-1000 rubles on quality clamps that will save you from many problems in the future, is that really a lot? Shifting a cable or a fire is probably cheaper, right?

I discovered them for myself not so long ago, but how convenient they are and simplify installation. How can all this be done faster now. And there is no problem to re-hook the wires.

Do not be fooled. The terminals are really convenient and reliable thing.

P.S. cable cross-section 2.5 is designed for a constant load of 22A. When using the "machine" 16A, it is guaranteed to work when the load is 3 times higher.

If the load is 1.3 times higher, the machine will turn off after 1 hour. Well and so on ... the more - the faster it turns off so that the cable does not overheat.

.... what a pancake 80A ?????????????

I completely agree with the author.The experience of the electrician is very large and reliable twisting, and even with soldering or welding, no. Clips, a convenient good thing, we also use, but within reason. Only where it is available for maintenance and for small loads. Those who are hoping to quickly do the installation, receive money and change the phone sculpt everything on the clamps. But you should not rely on protection. Absolute protection does not happen. Situations in electrics are different.

Judging by your picture, you are doing a 3.5 cm twist.?! But how much does it take to ensure a quality connection? quite obvious: for a 2.5 mm2 wire, the connection area is 2.5 mm2 ... are you so not sure what you are doing? (twist 3.5 cm!) ...
Protection?! Yes, it is protection that ensures the safety of the operation of electric networks!
If the socket is designed for 10A, then it must be protected by the corresponding AB !.
WAGO - patented German technology! Contact - spring, special steel, reliability for the entire period of operation!
Yes, the Germans are meticulous and meticulous - 25A means 25A! Well, the quality of the terminals on the Russian market leaves much to be desired, but their complete ban! or application restrictions!

A drive cross section of 2.5 squares is 80 amperes - this is abusive and not a single protection system or a sane person will allow this !!! Put real experiments and do not stoop to the level of a primitive man !!! Wago is reliable, simple and practical.

Normal test, everything is correct. This is not a resource test, but a crash test))) It is clear that no one will routinely operate wiring in this mode. However, this mode is possible for a short time, because the machine does not immediately react to a double overcurrent overcurrent. Moreover, the goal was to find out without complex devices, whose contact resistance is less without the use of complex devices.

Connect the TV to 380 the effect will be the same as yours with the wago terminal block)))

How long can a carriage connection live if the pk is walled up in the wall and the load is light not higher than 10A ???

Do not twist for anything if you do not want problems in the future.

vitalUntil the wiring decays.

Our 5-storey brick house consumes 15 kW, so it turns out one terminal car is able to withstand the load on the whole house))

The author is like a welder who arranges a test of water pipes made of steel and metal-plastic on a press, supplying water to a closed fitting at a pressure of 50 atmospheres. Of course, a welded steel pipe will not miss a single drop, but metal-plastic under such a load can also fail, but the author will not even say a word that there cannot be 50 atmospheres in the central water supply system. Conclusion:

The author intentionally sets such test conditions that a normal electrician will bypass a mile away, namely the permissible current on the wire with the specified cross section. I bring to the attention of those who do not know, and also remind those who have forgotten - the lighting points are pulled by a 1.5mm2 wire and protected by 10A circuit breakers, sockets and air conditioners are fed by a 2.5mm2 wire and protected by 16A circuit breakers. In such conditions, the terminal block will work for at least 30 years, and in practice - 2 times longer, because the protection will work before the wire starts to heat up.

Hello. How many people, so many opinions. After reading komenty, I am in a small budget. From my point of view, everyone is wrong, now I will cite the facts.
There are time current characteristics of machines. The characteristic "C" has a multiplicity of 5-10 In, i.e. 16A automatic machine should be triggered when the nominal value is exceeded by 5-10 times: 16 * (5-10) = 80-160 amperes is the maximum that an automatic machine can withstand 16A with char. "C".

The author is not correct in that he submitted 80A for about 2 minutes (the link shows the time it should be to turn off the machine at 80A) - and then the wires would not melt, smoke or bubble - neither in the case of twisting, nor in case with terminal.

My thoughts are about these terminals. Yes they melt, burn and evaporate. These terminals are NOT GOOD. I myself had examples.

EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON THE PRODUCER OF TERMINAL PADS AND AUTOMATIC CIRCUIT BREAKERS, ON THEIR QUALITY.

Personally, my opinion comes down to twisting, I trust her more than the terminals, but I also have to use the terminals.

Thank you all for your attention !!!

Type C time-current characteristic

Here is her schedule:

1. If a current equal to 5 · In passes through the circuit breaker, then it must turn off in 0.02 seconds in the hot state, up to 11 seconds in the cold state (for machines less than 32A) and up to 25 seconds in the cold state (for machines more than 32A).

2. If a current equal to 10 · In flows through the circuit breaker, it must trip in 0.01 seconds in the hot state or in 0.03 seconds in the cold state.

Automatic machines with characteristic C are mainly used to protect transformers and motors with low inrush currents. They can also be used to power lighting circuits. They found a fairly wide distribution in the housing stock, although I expressed my opinion about this a little higher.

Hello! Thanks for the test! However, in my opinion they are erroneous. As you can see from the results, the insulation of the wire began to melt, starting from the clamp of the car - that is, there is the hottest point. Why - the junction is isolated. In the case of twisting, the author did not impose any insulation at the junction of the wires - the heat sink is excellent. I think that experience needs to be redone.
The twist without solder and wagon should ideally show approximately equal results.

It can be seen that the author simply has nothing to do, arranging such entertaining tests. Such loads, in principle, will not be in operation and the machines will cut off the power long before heating to 60 degrees. Therefore, it is not clear what the author wanted to say with his test. What does VAGO melt at 5 times the maximum load? Well done. :)

But in any case, WAGO wins for convenience, twisting is an old-school collective farm IMHO.

With this approach, you can destroy any device by repeatedly exceeding the permissible operating parameters and then say that this device is shit. :)

Therefore, use the correct cable and the correct clamps for certain loads. No need to shove 25A load clamps on the network with 50A - this is obvious. Modern pros do not use twisting, because this, I repeat, is a collective farm.

Already tired of redoing the work of such collective farmers. Do it right with technology.

DmitroAs for the twists, they can not be considered as a complete way to connect the conductors. Twisting can only be considered as a preparatory stage for the implementation of the connection of wires by welding, soldering or crimping.

It would be correct to compare the soldered, welded or crimped twist with the connection with a Wago clamp. That is, compare existing and permitted PUE methods for connecting conductors.

According to the PUE, it is forbidden to connect the conductors with twist, that is, if the electrician performing electrical work connects the wires with twist, then he makes a gross mistake. And not because it is a “collective farm”, but because it is unacceptable to do this.

Wago Terminals Benefit on Convenience, But Convenience for Who? First of all, for electricians performing electrical work. For customers, convenience is the reliability of contact connections. I do not argue that Wago hold the rated current, but after 5-10 years, the reliability of the contact will significantly decrease, since contact surfaces will be oxidized, and the contact stiffness will decrease.Therefore, for high reliability - exclusively soldering, welding and crimping. These methods are more time-consuming, but once made and forgot about the connections until the next major overhaul of the apartment or house.

Twisting is twisting, but 80 amperes through wago designed for 25 amperes and even without a circuit breaker designed for this wire is a bad experiment from the author. A professional will certainly not do this if he is a professional. The video is more about how you can’t do it or from the category of destroyers of legends or brains. Would he do that to himself? Of course not. A video clip is more like a joke.

It was not necessary to measure the temperature, but the voltage drop at the connection.

When the subjects are connected in series, the current is the same, the voltage drop across the transition resistance of the connections will be different.

So it was necessary to measure them ...

10A * 0.003 Ohm will give us a connection voltage of 0.03 volts. That is 30 millivolts.

What can be measured even by a digital Chinese meter.

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Crash test - I approve. For to know how any element will behave during extreme- IMPORTANT!

If, at the melting currents of the wires, the twisting behaves like the rest of the wire, and WAGO burns, then this is a weak element ... And when using WAGO in installation, pay special attention to protection ...

Somewhere and additional.

Because the wires and twists withstand extreme, and the WAGO terminal flips.

I think that the author conducted a slightly incorrect experiment. I think it was necessary to make the dyne of the bare part of the twist equal to the length of the bare conductor for the Wago terminal. And under these conditions, see the result. Since the author’s twist length is clearly longer than the long bare conductor for the terminal block. Accordingly, the resistance is less.

Read read, tormented. Wrote an opinion, erased. It seems to be authorities, electricians, with extensive experience. I'm not an electrician. So, on the little things, wiring for yourself in the house to do. 80 A current. Burned out !! Bullshit !! It is necessary to compare adequately. For example, for vessels operating under pressure, there is a requirement. During the examination, the test pressure should be 1.25 working. Those. if the working pressure is 1 MPa (roughly 10 atm), then the tests should be 1.25 MPa (12.5) and there should be no leaks. And in the experiment, on a fishing line designed for a half-kilogram crucian carp, they pull out a 10-kilogram catfish, and they say, a bad fishing line, could not stand it. Like this. It is necessary to compare adequately. Crimps, soldering, spaceports. You can also connect an iron through a couple of telephone, then what? It is necessary to select the correspondence of power, connectors, wiring

Michael,
I have melted such a clip from the load of an electric kettle. For 2 years. I will no longer use them if the conditions allow twisting.

About 8 years ago, I helped to make an object - I personally saw similar terminal blocks - the wire scrolls inside if I scroll, I think they could not stand more than 2 amperes. He refused to do them - he carried out the installation of his site with bolted terminal blocks.

This experiment was not at all convinced, the correct automaton and nothing will burn, the stone age your snot called twisting.

The contact area in the wagon is several times smaller than the cross section, while twisting is many times larger. If twisting with a single-core wire with effort, sufficient elastic pressure forces will remain in it, therefore - many times more reliable. Conclusion: Vago put only branded, on lighting, on low currents and in cramped and stupid. Brand cars have stability at low currents and crooked hands and in cramped places.

Miracle, why did your insulation melt on both samples ???

Denis

Thanks to the author, you can put the wagon up and not take a steam bath, I protect them automatically by 2 steps below. Despite the best indications of twisting, time is spent on it many times more. It’s more profitable for me to buy a car and get money off than to twist, cook, put shrink and shove it all in a box. Thanks again.

Twisting is definitely better, especially if it is qualitatively soldered on a neutral flux. Those who prohibit twisting lobby for the interests of companies producing various clamps, including Wago. I opened my mounting boxes made 20-30 years ago. He opened it because the ZhKovo electricians had doubts and claims. ALL WHOLE, ALL WRAPPING AND SOLDERING as if yesterday made. But to Wago I have a claim. I already have several of their clamps burnt, including those standing in the lighting circuit. There is a very small contact area, and all the minuses arise at this point. At the international exhibition, I presented Wago representatives with their clamps. They recognized, but they shrug their questions - they say it happens! So Wago - only in areas of direct access or temporary shelters. Moreover, I used to work in the design bureau for developing the military-industrial complex, and so, all spring-loaded connections were prohibited. Only twist with solder. For wires with a cross section of 1.5 - 2.5, this is approximately 1.5-2 cm in length (for a normal contact area). I think the requirements are justified for the reliability of military equipment. And remember Stalin's sockets and switches, how tight were the contacts and contact area! Not a couple of current appliances. They only had burning on the connections, mostly not high-quality installation.