How to install and connect a socket for a stove and a washing machine

Alexander is all that you write here correctly. However, in our mother Russia, and throughout the former USSR, it is full of old houses (I’m talking about the Khrushchevs and earlier buildings), as you know, there is no grounding. How to be in this case? Here I installed for example a boiler. He applied tension to him. There is no grounding. Will it be correct if I connect the boiler body to the neutral conductor? It would seem possible. But, once the emergency service arrives (its task is to eliminate the malfunction, that is, give light to the apartment) and swaps the phase and zero. For example, when the bag in the shield burned down. The wires in the Soviet shields do not differ in color. There is light in the apartment. Guaranteed on the boiler body will be a phase. Do not ground on the pipe. I met this option when I was a Zhekovsky electrician. The washing machine body was grounded to the conductor by which the builders grounded the bath. So we are connected to the pipe riser cold or hot water. So what remains? It is possible not to connect the neutral conductor to the housing. But then how do we protect against breakdown?

Alexey, then you just have to be vigilant, apply voltage to the boiler only for the time you use it. Whenever possible, avoid the location of grounded live parts within the zone of simultaneous contact. You can lay a dielectric mat near the boiler, if aesthetics is not especially important for you.

Well, in the end, I will say that I am a supporter of the installation of an RCD in a two-wire line to protect powerful and responsible electric receivers, such as a boiler.

Good afternoon, Alexander! Tell me, please, I have turned off the dependent electric / stove with an oven. An electrician brought her connection into one non-power outlet with a dishwasher, installing 32 a on the line in the UZO shield.

Wires copper section 2,5х3; 4x3 - three-core twisted into one ordinary outlet.

Is it possible? And is it dangerous? What is the way out?

Something is written about the decay box - is it a salvation?

They recommend a power outlet, but the dishwasher is new and you do not want to lose the warranty by cutting off the plug.

If you are a resident of Moscow, we would like to use your services, because the “electricians” have done a lot of things in ten years of obscurity.

Thanks.

Moscow. 8 916 931 60 72

It is undesirable to connect an electric stove to a regular 16 amp socket - it can melt (along with the plug, by the way). It is difficult to say something about the cross-section of cables: you need to know the power more accurately. But more often than not, one “four” is enough for a stove in practice. And two cables to one outlet is a thing, of course, unhealthy, needs to be eliminated.

About the dishwasher: if the manufacturer installed an ordinary plug, then we put, respectively, a 16 amp socket and throw the problem out of our heads. It is only desirable that this outlet is powered by a separate machine in the shield with differential protection.

Alas, I can’t help you practically - I live in Irkutsk.

Thanks. We all felt it.

I think that making an electrician in an apartment and a house with your own hands is a deadly task, it requires sufficient knowledge and experience that non-electricians do not have, and not all electricians do. But knowing how an electrician should be done is a must for all customers. I usually tell my clients: how well you will know an electrician, so well they will do it to you. And do not rely on the decency of your electricians.
According to the content of the article, one can make some very significant comments, for example.
I do not know how in Irkutsk, but in general there are beautiful and powerful sockets for hidden wiring.
If the wall is wooden, then you need not an insulating, but a heat-insulating gasket according to fire safety conditions.
When I put the external outlet for the stove below it, I unfold the outlet 90 degrees - the cable leaves the plug sideways and better fits behind the stove.
Open wiring in kitchens is prohibited.
Using a plastic dowel and a self-tapping screw to attach the outlet to a concrete or brick wall is very risky - the screws have a conical head, and with strong twisting, the outlet can crack. First, I attach a plywood socket to the wall, and already to it - a socket, but with self-tapping screws of a selected diameter, length, with a semicircular head.
The curtains in the sockets do not provide splash protection, but only protection from children.
Personally, I do not believe in splash protection of IP44 sockets with the upper cable entry, only with the lower one.
Again, I do not believe that it is possible to provide splash protection of the outlet when installing it in a hollow wall (tiles on top of drywall) with the help of mounting boxes for drywall. In such cases, I am tormented, but with the help of gypsum I turn the hollow wall into a solid one, at least in the place where the outlet is installed.
The same plastic cup is called an assembly, or installation box, and not a jar.
Connecting cable cores to the terminals of the outlet - the task is the more difficult, the greater the number and cross-section of wires, and less space for connection. In severe cases (in the box there are 12 wires 2.5 mm2; either 5 wires 2.5 mm2 are suitable for the outlet of the 40A plate; or sequential grounding of sockets is prohibited; or you want to achieve maximum reliability of the connection and have to be improvedeach outlet) the outlet becomes a work of art.
Please do not take the above as destructive criticism. Articles are interesting, this is the only site I subscribed to.

elalex, thanks for the "non-destructive" criticism. But I will say a few words in my defense.

1. Do-it-yourself electrician - with special knowledge. It might seem that a professional does not need such articles, and they will not particularly help an amateur. However, everyone may lose sight of something. Therefore, it is never a shame to learn from anyone. For example, I gained a lot of knowledge from readers commenting on my articles. Alexander alone (Alex gal) what is it worth. And if an amateur reads a similar article, I also don’t see a problem. Suppose I am not able to repair most of the systems of my car, but this does not stop me from not only managing it, but also being interested in how it is arranged and how it is being repaired. And why it breaks.

2.Beautiful and powerful sockets for hidden wiring - which ones? In the same Irkutsk, sockets for hidden wiring are sold - at a maximum of 16 amperes. If with a spring-loaded cover and IP44 protection - then only single ones. You can’t refuse them “beauty”, of course, and in most cases they are enough. And in the shops of your city, what kind of miraculous sockets are sold, what did you find it necessary to mention them?

3. By the way, “according to all documents” the lining for sockets and switches “passes” as “insulating”, and not “heat-insulating”.

4. The choice of self-tapping screws for attaching the outlet is an important trifle. But the plywood rosette ... I don’t even know, in my opinion, this is too much.

5. In the case of curtains - yes. An annoying reservation: I constantly confuse the spring-loaded lid and the curtains. The latter, of course, were created to avoid the "sticking" of foreign objects. But IP44 is not only a “curtain-cover”, you know that.

6. Theses starting with the words “believe” or “do not believe”, “do not believe” are relevant in a religious forum. Your attitude to sockets in particular and to IP44 as a whole is characterized by increased suspicion. So be it: God saves the safe. Let me consider the measures you have cited as excessive.

7. I don’t want to argue about what to call “the same plastic cup”. I and people from my immediate professional environment often call this subject a “socket”. I do not see anything criminal in this. The only normative document that can clarify the issue is the explanatory dictionary of the Russian language of the latest edition, and not the documents that you alluded to. So I will continue to call it the “socket”, and you, if necessary, read my texts, will mentally change this word to “mounting box”. Have you agreed?

Well, everything seems to be. Good luck

Thanks to the author for tons of useful material !!!!!!!!!! I have been doing electronics myself since childhood, and this is already 25 years old, but the nuances are always interesting)) I just want to share my experience - in boilers and washing machines - I do it myself and advise my friends - I connect the three-wire cable directly to the terminal block. The socket is cleaned in the bathroom, which means a possible place of poor contact with time, and the danger of electric shock due to humidity, and the cable for moving the washing machine away from the inspection or cleaning wall can be made 1-1.5 meters longer and laid down for the car)))

Anatoly,
I join your "indignation" - it is rather difficult (if at all possible) to organize reliable operation of the "plug-socket" circuit with such required parameters. There was a similar situation with a thermal curtain. I decided to install a bipolar switch, "sticking" the plug into it (from below, into the lower poles), and applying drops of lithol to the plug pins. At the end of the warranty repair, he advised the customer to remove the plug. For two months everything worked wonderfully, later unknown.

Alexey,
The types of performance of electrical networks in houses of the old construction still differ.If a line for an electric stove was developed according to the design in your house, you can take a protective conductor from it. It is difficult not to notice the grounding performed on the metal base of the electronic switchgear of the service organization (who should be). Or lay a separate three-wire cable. From the break of the neutral wire, there are different devices, if interested. If the installation of electric stoves was not provided, here everything is much more complicated. But your water heater is already connected with metal structures (sewage, pipes), at least through water. True, not with pure zero potential. What potential metal structures have in relation to the earth - the question is solved by the measurement method. If there is zero - communication with them in the presence of high-quality RCD N + PE is not the worst option. True, false alarms are possible if your protective conductor is working for someone. I repeat, and other protective devices can be provided from emergencies along the lead-in line.