When washing hands, it is shocking - how to solve this problem

Hello, dear Andrey! And I have such a problem with the leakage current in the bathroom - when I touch the bathtub with not even wet hands, it pinches me with electric current, everything that you set out in the article does not suit me, since there are electric appliances except the light bulb and the washing machine that I connect through I don’t have an extension cord, but the connection with my neighbors is separate, since I live in an apartment building, the pipeline and sewage system are made of PVC pipes, I didn’t put a differential machine, because I don’t see the need for this, and my water floor was made through the heating system, and the tingling does not stop, could you tell me what I need to do in this situation ?! Thank you in advance! Yuri.

Maybe someone in the riser is grounded on the pipe.

YuriThere are no miracles. The reason is one of the points described in the article.

Thanks Andrew! I will look for a reason.

Dmitry, my neighbors do not have the opportunity to ground on the pipe, as I already wrote that the sewer and water pipes are laid with polypropylene. But thank you for your help.

Dear Yuri!

In the article, the author forgot to mention another very important aspect (PUE No. 7 of Ch. 7.1.88) - an additional potential equalization system, which is mandatory for bathrooms and shower rooms.

This system must bind the bath itself (if it is metal), metal pipes for water supply and sewage (again, if any), a washbasin faucet and a shower faucet (they are usually metal) with separate grounding conductors. Perhaps this is not always aesthetically pleasing, but life is more expensive!

In your case, the potential is drifted through the water supply line despite the plastic pipes of the water supply). I had a similar situation.

The adjustment system is performed:

1. or by separate grounding wires leading to the main floor busbar (main grounding bus) of the apartment / floor / house metering panel. (But it is inconvenient to pull the harness out of 3 ... 5 wires).

2. either by reducing the grounding conductors to one common bathroom floor drain. But with it - with one conductor (cross-section 2.5 ... 4 mm2 Cu) in the central floor of the apartment / floor / house metering panel.

ONLY IN THIS WAY You, Yuri, can protect yourself from all sorts of troubles.

P.S. By the way, in my case, it was not the riser neighbors themselves who became the culprits, but the blown PEN wire of the floor shield above the floor.

In addition, specifically in your case, an UZO or an AVDT protecting the outlet line of the bathroom (or the apartment as a whole, if it is one "at all") will not work at all. Because the entered potential "from the outside" is not a leak from a conductor controlled by your RCD (AEDT).

If the leak is due to leaks from your line, then most likely yes.

It should also be remembered that, for example. A 30 mA RCD (CBMT) must, according to current standards, be switched off at a leakage current of 50% to 100% of the leakage current rating.

Which corresponds to a range of 15-30 mA.

Accordingly, at 14 mA (the so-called non-disconnecting differential current), it will still power the line.

Despite the fact that 10 mA of the flowing current may be sufficient in some cases (children, the elderly, people with a weak heart) for death.

That is why in a number of countries it is mandatory for such "wet" and, accordingly, potentially more dangerous zones, the requirement to install an RCD with a trip current of 10 and even 6 mA.

Therefore, the question "to land - not to land" and "to put an RCD - not to set" should not rise, in theory, in general.

Dear Alexander Shaposhnikov.
Thank you very much for the very detailed information, since today I myself came to the same conclusion about the GZSH, but you know, I have a problem in the following, that our house from the age of 62 and the potential separation system were not yet provided, and unfortunately it naturally is not in the house, and at my request, you as a knowledgeable person understand that no one will do it, you yourself understand for what reason! :-)
But such an idea crept in to me, I live on the first floor and I have no problem making an earthing system in the basement as it should be according to all the rules, installing the GZS in the bathroom, drilling a through hole for the wire (4 mm sq cu) through the apartment in basement and to be shunted (if there isn’t any screed in the basement and the house is on the foundation and the ground is open). The only question is, do I have the right to bury the grounding devices myself in the basement of the house? I will be very grateful if you can help me solvethat question, or just explain to me why this should not be done, or can not, I'm sorry if you do not write competently because I'm just starting electrician !!! Thank you in advance for the information! Yuri.

Dear Yuri!

At present, I don’t know any legislative acts that would contradict your “creative impulses”.

Moreover, taking into account the fact that you are going to fulfill the requirements of a normative legislative document (PUE No. 7 of Ch. 7.1.88), your actions are quite legitimate.

However, taking into account your own understanding of the current realities, I advise you to nevertheless do the following:

1. To re-examine the basement in the alleged location of the grounding circuit device for the subject “will I interrupt any communications going underground in this place under this circuit?”

2. Find (lend) PUE-7 and go to the housing office and show the corresponding chapter of the beginning. ZhEK / ZhEO and hl. Engineer / Ch. energy and inform them of your plan.

I think if you agree, there will be no questions.

But if you do not agree, then upon detection there may be claims-tantrums of the type: "To unwind! So that by the counters!". Well, etc.

I myself arranged such grounding, my friends - too. Faced.

An important point: after completing the circuit itself, try, nevertheless, to check its grounding resistance. There were cases when under the layer of "basement soil" there was crushed stone bedding. The efficiency of the circuit turned out to be close to zero.

If anything - write to your personal mail:

I propose to supplement the paragraph:
"The reason for tingling in most cases is damage or improper connection to the electrical network of the household appliance, which in the process has a connection with water, piping of the apartment (house).This is primarily a washing machine, storage water heater (boiler), instantaneous water heater, dishwasher. "-
an appliance such as a submersible pump operated in a well or in a well.
A large number of such devices are used, mainly in rural areas. Cases of damage to the insulation of the lead wires and contact elements are known.

There is also a breakdown of the temperature sensor of the gas boiler of individual apartment heating, the pipes are plastic, there is no current leakage in the normal state, but when using the water mixer it draws current, the current flows through the water through a person into the bathroom floor.

“The water supply is beating electric current” - Another story on television news, the crying Khabaravchanka, was forced to change metal pipes in the apartment, but it still beats and beats ... The helpless raids of interchangeable electricians and the head engineer shaking hands are useless ... Is the problem really so difficult ... Alas, in dubious specialists with diplomas stand as the leading specialists of production shops and enterprises, “they work with their heads” And when there is at least a minor technical problem like Toko - a danger in the apartment, they can’t even have such a trifle ... ayut solve the problem of those whom they consider beings work with your hands ... Fedotov ... Okay, let superiors work their heads-bottoms and we should once and for all voice solution why fight the current water pipes and plumbing. Reduce eloquence to technical brevity. So.

The water supply is breaking (even from plastic pipes), which means that the conductive core of the phase of the access riser-cable comes into contact with water in the pipes or with the iron of the pipes. You need to consider - this is not tied to your specific apartment. Even if you have a neighbor, even a homeless person in the basement, if the phase riser is the same everyone will to some extent feel the breakdown. Usually there are three riser-phases in the entrance (different phases of the 3-phase system), therefore, with a single short circuit of one phase of the riser, only one third of the apartment's apartments suffer. Find out in your apartment whether a leak can be de-energized completely. If the breakdown continues, it’s not your fault, but the neighbors.Technically, it will be correct to measure the insulation resistance between the phase (de-energized phase wire of your apartment) and the water supply using a megohmmeter, after all, it is easier than running around trying pipes every time with your hands, risking damage to your health. So, the wiring in your apartment is working, and there is a breakdown in the water, you need to try to turn off the neighbors, and not only on your site ... It's a difficult thing ... you can run into ... And it may happen that the most scandalous neighbor will call the police before you find out what she has in her the heater of a water heater or a washing machine was leaked, a short circuit to the water occurred and for this reason the whole staircase was clogging with current. So, the long wire from your apartment connected to the water supply that is beating, is taken out to the site, take a megohm meter, de-energize the neighbor, connect one probe of the megohmmeter to the de-energized neighboring phase, the other to your wire connected to the water supply. If the measured value is close to zero ... yeah dear neighbor ... nightmare entrance and you live in blissful ignorance.

If it hits / pinches when the machine is plugged in, it means that there is no zero in the outlet (burned out). Check with a voltmeter. At the same time, the machine can work quietly, but most likely it will not be able to heat, and you will not know.