Safe wiring in a wooden house: not a myth, but reality

A very good article. Everything is cool systematized and laid out on shelves. I have a wooden house myself and I’m very interested in everything about how to make the correct and safe wiring in a wooden house. I look forward to continuing!

Of course, I completely agree with the author of the article, but the cable channel and the HDPE corrugation can be beautifully laid, which will be quite aesthetically pleasing. And I do not completely agree with the choice of the PUNP cable - it is most often not recommended. Best of all is VVGng.

Yes, if there is a desire and the opportunity to lay out a tidy sum for the "retro wiring", I, as an electrician, only for! The cost of such pleasure is quite high.

But since in most cases, it is required to make it with maximum reliability and quality in the minimum amount of time, my choice is still open wiring, cable channel, PND-corrugation and VVG ng or NYM cable. Well, aesthetics with the right approach can always be observed. From practice, I note that damage to the wiring is possible only in places where the walls pass, when sealing more than 60% of the volume in the cable ducts, in junction boxes at the points of connection to the terminal fittings (sockets, switches, lamps). Along the length of the cable channel or PND-corrugation, practically no damage occurs, unless there is a factory defect.Poor connection also leads to fire, operation of a cable of a smaller cross-section than required, installation of circuit breakers of the wrong rating or poor quality. What to choose remains with the client, but most owners of wooden houses cannot afford the high costs.

I am an electrical engineer with a very long experience, but with great pleasure I read your articles. Young people subordinate to me learn from them. I know a lot, I can do almost everything when I tell people they don’t always understand me right away. Not every person can concisely and intelligibly convey his knowledge to others. You succeed.

Thank you very much!!!!

I work as an electrician in gardening. I agree with the author. Hidden wiring, I try to dissuade people. Cable channels, by color, now have almost any tree. And aesthetics will not suffer if the cable channel is launched instead of the fillet along the entire perimeter. I recommend NYM cable. It is designed specifically for such cases.

In the photo there is a two-wire line to the socket, and a socket with a grounding pin.

Now on the market there are many offers to use electric skirting boards as a cable channel. There are even multi-channel electrics and low voltage. Under these skirting boards there are many different proposals for mechanisms.

Typo: lining of fireproof material should protrude 10 mm.

In my opinion, the so-called retro wiring on insulators is a typical case when beauty kills the world. Although the PUE allows open laying on rollers with a clearance of more than 10 mm from the combustible base (rollers every 10 cm), it would be better to close the wires with any permitted method for mechanical and fire protection. In this sense, retro style is a style of long-standing fires and deaths.
The PUNP wire is prohibited for fixed installation; it is allowed only for temporary postings (such as construction projects).
As for me, VVGng-nd is better than NYM.

The article is really interesting. It is not clear about the use of the so-called "metal hose", if we are talking about a metal corrugation, then it is also prohibited when performing hidden wiring on a combustible surface. It is also not very clear on the use of asbestos, as far as I know the use of this material in residential buildings has been prohibited for a long time because of its toxicity. On the combustible surface (wood) we used basalt, the material is not combustible. One thing I don’t know, with a short circuit there is an impact effect, the basalt material is brittle, how it behaves. And so the article is good, we ourselves used a copper pipe, very convenient.

In my opinion, this is a biased article, especially about pipe slopes, condensate, etc., rather an advertisement for this product. And more about the fires from KZ. Fires most likely occur from poor contact and network overload, when wires and cables are heated, and short-circuit protection will work and disconnect this line. Just don’t think that I am for hidden wiring in a wooden house.

And if the wiring is in PVC corrugation, and the top is sewn with drywall, is this considered already hidden wiring?

xpv68, Yes. This is a hidden wiring.

And I’ll say if done qualitatively, it’s possible both hidden and open, and whatever, the main thing is that the contact is good, and the rest is all show-off.

It’s not worth joking with electricity. By performing reliable and high-quality wiring in the house, you will protect yourself, your loved ones and your house from a fire!

I do not understand the hatred of some electricians for the PUNP cable.If it is produced according to TU and allows a reduction in the cross-section of the core by 30% and everyone knows this, then why, for example, instead of a cable with a cross section of 2.5 mm, which in reality would be 1.75 mm, do not take a cable with a cross section of 4.0 mm In my opinion, everything is obvious here, and the cable with all thirty percent of the tolerance will be a cross section of 2.8 mm, which is more than enough. And about the insulation of 0.3 mm instead of 0.4, this is bullshit: if the insulation is at least 0.7 mm, it still will not save with short circuit.

And when was the article written? Why are you referring to PUE-6, because the current rules 7

I agree with all three reasons that may arise during the installation of unprotected hidden wiring. I am for open wiring in color cable channels to match the color of the walls, in contrast or in a pattern using false boxes symmetrically to the workers.

Good day, Andrey! Thank you for the excellent and clear electrical lessons!

I have a foam house, i.e. from fixed foam formwork with a thin concrete wall inside. the thickness of the foam layer is 40-50 mm. How to correctly carry out wiring in such a house, so as not to suffocate from the dangerous gas released during combustion. Although the seller convinces that the house is safe in every way, I do not believe it. But you need to live somewhere.

Natalya, do hidden wiring with a NYM or VVGng cable in the corrugated turbine.

A good readable article, but strongly disagree with the use of PUNP! Of our cables, I think it's better like VVGng ls or BCP (I don’t remember the letters), well, or NYM.

In fact, when laying on combustible surfaces of copper wires with a cross section of 2.5 mm2 and lower, the wall thickness of the pipe is not standardized, but, starting from 4 mm2 and higher, there is a strict regulation on the wall thickness metal pipes: from 2.8 to 4.0 mm. (SP 31-110-2003). Therefore, with a copper pipe it will not work here, only steel! Alternatively, you can use a non-combustible base under the track, for example a strip of drywall. After all, he has. certificate.

An article may be good as general advice. But I would like more details. In my opinion, in the magazine “I am an electrician” there was more useful and “tasty”.

And I liked the wiring on the rollers. If you carefully lay and comply with all the rules and reliably and beautifully.

Trays, metal channels (boxes) look more acceptable option when laying cables, but if space allows. And if not, then the championship is over the metal hose. And let the rodents leave the walls.

A good article, but its title should more accurately reflect the content.
The article considers only one aspect of security - fire, and only one of its sides. It would be more useful, in my opinion, to give a name something like "Wiring in a wooden house - hidden or open?"

This is all show off. In practice, a minimum of VVGng + corrugation on clips, a maximum of NYM + a metal hose or a metal box are costed (depending on the budget). Everything else is installation quality: a correctly selected section, soldered twists, calculated machines, etc.

I heard about retro wiring. There is such a company, Fontini Garby, they have a bunch of such retro-switches, retro-insulators and retro-wires. It looks really gorgeous.

The article is excellent !!!

The article is not bad, but more like a horror story. It’s impossible, the same is dangerous, but if so, then the same is hopeless. It can be stated much shorter: Hidden wiring in a wooden house cannot be mounted, it is dangerous. And they wrote ....
A modern person builds a wooden house, wants to do everything beautifully and mount the wiring invisible, as is done all over the world, and if the article taught how to do it safely, how to lay hidden wiring, what are the protection against external, internal, impulse, etc. mount surge voltage .... And you call to mount wiring on roller insulators ....

Is there any way to lay the cable in the pipe metelloplasty?

The article is objective. But the PUNP cable in wooden buildings is now unlikely to be allowed. But of course the installation in copper pipes is the most protected. I changed my wiring and made an electrical installation in the cable channel, 1988 house. And the old wiring there was a cable wrapped in foil and laid in the gates of the chipboard trim panels. The house (cottage) is typical, there are about a dozen of them along our street, and such a performance was approved earlier. Nightmare.

I make wiring in a wooden new house in cable channels, the color of pine to the color of the walls. It seems nothing happens, you can see where the wiring goes. This is the best option.

For the most part I agree with the author of this article, but it seems to me that fires occur more because of a mismatch in the rating of the machine under the wire, or poor contact in the wiring. Well, most often it’s just because of the old wiring and the old ancient machines that have long been time for scrap.

Pue was written when there were no non-combustible and low-smoke cables, there were no guns. If you do everything as it is written it will result in a decent amount and time.
And look what section of the current cable is 1.5 or 2.5 mm, and the quality of copper? I have experience in the construction of state institutions, medical institutions, cottage villages of timber 130 and 90 wooden houses everywhere hidden wiring cable VVGngLS.

Oh, if we talk about aesthetics ... then the box and the corrugation ... and even more so the open wiring ... Explain to me the electricians please ... why in the USA and Canada, the hidden wiring is carried out without everything on wooden structures? Do they have a NG tree? Or are the wires not copper, but platinum? (for those who do not believe - google: rough in wiring and see at least the pictures!)

Hello. The article is more advertising. VVG ng, high-quality corrugation (black or orange). Properly selected machines + Ouzo, and high-quality wiring of the distribution boxes = key to the success of hidden electrical wiring in a wooden house. And of course the educational program for the client about the operating rules :)

Yes, and I didn’t see houses where the cable breaks down during shrinkage :) Usually, all finishing inside a wooden house is done at least half a year later. and even a year. when the house stands

The article is not bad, almost everything in it is indicated for proper wiring, but there is one “but” wiring to be taken into account with a view to future increase in power, time always goes forward and there will be plenty of margin in the cross section of the wire and the laying of wires is always combined (closed go open). If it is closed (in a pipe, corrugation, electric box), then the load is reduced due to poor heat transfer. The cable section (as well as the wire section) is selected according to:
- heating conditions
- The conditions of mechanical strength
- Economic current density
In order to simplify the selection of the required cable section, you can use the table that reflects the approximate correspondence of the cable section to certain indicators. With the correct alignment of capacities and the smallest desoldering joints, as well as the conditions of protection against short-circuit and electric shock. Everything will be fine and there is no reason to bother with fear.Now sockets with built-in RCD and DPN have begun to appear and this is correct because of both short-circuit and overvoltage (two in one unit).

1. The PUNP wire is illegal! (POOR INSULATION from recyclables gives breakdowns)

2. Asbestos is a carcinogen, it is already banned for use (- this is about asbestos substrates for external wiring)

3. In the PUE it is written in black and white that laying hidden electrical wiring on the wooden surfaces of walls, ceilings, floors, etc., in the corrugation, in a metal hose and in a plastic channel or box STRICTLY FORBIDDEN !!!

The very first way to lay open wiring is a twisted way. With this method, the wiring is suspended on special rollers from the ceiling. At a distance at which it is difficult to reach with your hand, but it does not touch the ceiling. This method is most practical for wooden houses, which are prone to rapid fire.

I think that the aerospace cable is quite suitable for wiring in a wooden house. To improve and seal the corrugation from dust, quartz sand is quite suitable. But there are wires in which the gel insulation can withstand temperatures of 800 degrees Celsius. And, yes - no vag. Only welding. Weld wires to sockets and switches. Use fully sealed sockets and switches - a spark is the trouble of a wooden house. Additional signal wires should be laid along all routes, then when the resistance deviates from the nominal (and it varies depending on temperature) the tracking equipment will turn off the faulty line. Use teapots, lighting fixtures and heaters equipped with vlutez and wifi, because you don’t know how much energy this or that device consumes, but electronics can track the moment of leakage. And it’s better not to do electrical wiring at all - use stones heated in the yard (for the steam room) and rechargeable lamps. For there is nothing to breed Khokhloma in a tree house.

There is no safe wiring! It’s time to know.

There are no safe rooms. This is for the rest, for information.

The corresponding conclusions are in pue. That is not what I said.

Bullshit at the expense of corrugated pipes and short circuit. Corrugated pipes, along with the integrity of the wires, are still needed to prevent a fire from igniting. Any stupid ear-hooks who in life did not work with them naturally do not know this. And their mind is not enough to even ask.
The short circuit will be knocked out and again nothing will happen. with proper installation, nothing will be walled up in the wall of wood. Personally, my experience is more than 10 years of work and not a single fire. And here it’s purely PR advertising products.

Konstantin,
NYM in cable channels !? )))

For cable channels, better than simple VVGNG (for the VVGNG LS tree) does not exist in nature and will come out cheaper.

Wireless switches are a great solution for wooden houses !! / p>

I want to thank the author and insert my "5 cents" into the general discussion. The best way to lay wires in wooden houses, in my opinion, is in non-combustible metallized flexible ducts. For aesthetics, they can be painted or given the appropriate shape in places of bends. Insulators are not good. When the house (new) shrinks, the wires undergo a gap in the fastening points of the insulators. The owner of the house knows better where and what to sculpt the wires for, but I advise you to listen to the author.

Evgeny,
totally agree with you. The metal hose is prohibited for hidden laying in wooden houses in the current version of the Electrical Installation Rules.
For everyone: PUNP is a wire, not a cable. It is forbidden to lay.

The fire is very vague and not convincing. The main cause of the fire is not insulation damage, but illiterate load distribution in the ratio of section-ampere-watts ... When an inadequate builder throws a 1.5 cable into a socket with a planned consumer of 4 kW, and "protects" its line with a 25A automatic machine - here from here comes the guaranteed heating of the conductor to critical temperatures and, as a consequence, the possibility of a fire. Modern automation, if correctly assembled, will work (de-energize the line) at the slightest leakage of current, heating and short circuit ...

A metal hose as a material for laying in wooden houses is least suitable, because the author correctly noted a short circuit is most likely possible at the joints or in places with damaged insulation. So it is the metal hose that is dangerous in that it can cut the insulation and cause a fire, and it burns for a sweet soul .. 20 years of experience, the distribution box in the Civil Code melted (poor contact), the metal hose burned, the machine did not knock out, closed the phase wire to the metal . and the cable burned in the PVC pipe in the attic of the house (the shield was not dialed, repairs) there was no fire, but the cable burned in the metal hose, in the inside, the metal hose was red. Correct installation, pvc, current protection and all the rules, if not afraid of mice.

I recommend you to familiarize yourself.

All nonsense about the danger of hidden wiring. The first thing to do is to make rigid connections in the wiring using high-quality terminal blocks, not twists. The second: in the corrugation of VVG NG, a cable with a normal cross section, 1.5 light, 2.5 sockets, and accordingly 10 and 16 A circuit breakers, and a common one on the 25A shield. And thirdly: the most important thing is to install an RCD in all the shields of houses and garages - from electric shock, from short and from moisture, it will always work. It’s better to work once again, but it will prevent / prevent disaster. Here are three rules!

And open wiring is just more dangerous, they killed, pegegnali, flooded, the child pierced, the house. animal gnawed, atmospheric influence reduces the life of any plastic - That's where the danger is mortal and fire!

And I can also say a bit, the best VVG cable ng "Gostovsky", his wires are located so (grounding in the center) that when heated and short circuit, an RCD and an automatic machine will always work. But in the PVA and NYM there are veins in a circle, it is not known how they are twisted there and which one will short-circuit with what.

About the company of the manufacturer of RCDs by experience (not advertising) I use Legrand everywhere, they work on a short circuit and touching a person’s hand, earth to phase, earth to zero. But Merlin gern works only on short-circuit ground to phase, he only recently found out when he hit the control lamp in the shield, and was disappointed in this manufacturer.

Tales of asbestos toxicity are a pure lie! The result of dirty competition, for forcing on the market, alternative to asbestos, building materials. A few years ago, in the journal Chemistry and Life, there was a large revealing article on this subject. So safely use asbestos when laying wiring, for reliable protection of the house from fire. Asbestos is not more toxic than simple sand or clay. If you are not going to pour it into your nose, eat with a spoon or enter intravenously, then you will absolutely not have anything!