Corrugated pipe for electrical wiring

Not understood. But is PVC not polyvinyl chloride? Under the sheathing in wooden houses, I still advise not a corrugation, but a full-fledged pipe.

PUE, seventh edition, 7.1.38.Electric networks laid behind impassable suspended ceilings and in partitions are considered as hidden electrical wiring and should be performed; behind ceilings and in the voids of partitions made of combustible materials in metal pipes with localization ability, and in metal blind boxes; behind ceilings and partitions of non-combustible materials * - in pipes and ducts made of non-combustible materials, as well as cables that do not spread combustion. In this case, it must be possible to replace wires and cables.

PVC pipe does not have the localization ability and can not withstand a short circuit in a cable or wire without burning out the walls.

Understand the purpose of this PVC pipe. And here is the electrical wiring, if this pipe does not have localization ability. Only lazy people and lobsters can carry out hidden wiring on combustible substrates using PVC pipes and corrugations, in the hope of cutting down the loot and rushing away. And the customer then swells, it is good if he survives after a fire due to a short circuit. The use of PVC pipes and corrugations in a hidden electrical wiring on combustible substrates is also the same as wrapping the cable with cellophane and laying it hidden.

SP31-110-2003
14.15 Electrical wiring in cavities above impassable suspended ceilings and inside prefabricated partitions are considered as hidden, and they should be performed:
- behind suspended ceilings and in the voids of partitions made of non-combustible materials of NG and the G1 combustibility group, conduct electrical wiring with wires and / or cables in non-metallic pipes that meet the fire safety requirements and non-metal ducts, as well as cables with the ng-LS index (not spreading combustion , with low smoke and gas emission);
- behind suspended ceilings and in the voids of partitions made using materials of the G2 combustibility group, conduct electrical wiring with wires and / or cables in metal pipes and metal boxes with a degree of protection of at least IP4X;
- behind suspended ceilings and in the voids of partitions made using materials of the G3 combustibility group, carry out electrical wiring with a cable in metal pipes and metal boxes with a degree of protection of at least IP4X;
- behind suspended ceilings and in the voids of partitions made using materials of the G4 combustibility group, conduct electrical wiring with wires and / or cables in metal pipes with localization ability, as well as in metal deaf boxes with localization ability;
- electrical wiring must be replaceable.
Localization ability is the ability of a steel pipe to withstand a short circuit in the wiring laid in it, without burning its walls.

Corrugation for hidden wiring on combustible structures should not be used - I do not argue or deny it. The best and correct option recommended by the PUE is a grounded metal pipe.

Well, you, my dear, again write articles contrary to the PUE. After all, a stingy reader will do everything according to your advice, buy a cheap PVC corrugation, and make himself a fire hazardous electrical wiring. You need to be more responsible about the texts, you should not give such advice. I understand that you also want to eat, so you promote the site by collecting more and more public on it, and then post paid posts with advertisements (for example, how to repair a microwave with your own hands, or the courses of Mr. Vanyushchin), that's okay, that's all they do that. But here conscious bloggers (for example, like Sergei Dolya and many others) never give advertisements that can harm people, and write only about what they are 100% versed in. And you give advice, I'm sorry, as an amateur. Recently, the State Duma was discussing a law on the placement of harmful information on the Internet of pornographic content, which should not be accessible to children.In my opinion, sites like yours carry almost the same threat. If someone will post on your advice, where is the guarantee that he will be alive after that? And the worst thing is that anyone can advise, without understanding the essence of things, now, and anything, and as always, there will be nothing for anyone (((.
A big request, if you do not understand something, do not consider these topics at all and do not write anything about it. Do a better review of all sorts of new products, you do it very well, I personally like such articles. But please do not give advice and do not consider topics related to a good knowledge of regulatory documentation.

Zhora, the author of the article "Corrugated Pipe for Wiring" (Alexander Molokov) has nothing to do with the placement of "paid posts with advertising" on the website. I do all the work on the selection and placement of content on the site, and naturally, I am responsible for the quality of the information posted on the site.

By the way, do you remember that you wrote about being sent abroad for electrical wiring without a specialized education, a license, etc.? So, yesterday I read one good Western book about the design of lighting in the garden. It was written for gardeners, not for electricians. And there, the author (Peter Hagen) recommends gardeners to choose and lay cables, install control devices and street lamps on their own, as he said "this work is unlikely to be difficult for most gardeners." In extreme cases, it is recommended to consult with the seller of electrical goods in the store. According to Hagen, a specialist should only connect the cable to the shield and to the lamp itself. According to your words, it turns out that all the unfortunate gardeners who made electrical wiring in their garden according to this book should definitely be planted there.

As for the article, yes there are always controversial issues and they can be found in any topic covered. Not for nothing in electrical forums about seemingly simple questions whole discussions are going on. Alexander wrote an article, you corrected it at some points, he agreed. What's so bad? In my opinion, an article about corrugated pipes for most site visitors will be very useful. Naturally, your addition to it makes it even better. I will be glad if you continue to criticize the materials on the site in the case. Desirable, with links to regulatory and technical documentation.

Regarding the use of PVC corrugation in wooden houses is definitely not there, it should be used only for laying on a non-combustible or non-combustible base. Regarding combustion, we don’t suck it right, the same DKC writes on its PVC pipes not spreading combustion, so everything should be fine on the same concrete or brick wall.

About books and sellers, I do not agree with you. In my opinion, you need to trust only GOSTs and literature of the Soviet edition. Now books are published by all and sundry. And it’s not worth talking about sellers in the store. Their task is to sell their Chinese goods as expensive as possible, and electric and fire hazard are their last concern, the advisers from them are useless.

But where do I recommend hidden wiring in wooden houses to perform in the corrugation? Well really?

Something I am obscurely speaking, it seems. Yes, this is often done - this is a fact; you won’t argue with that. But I did not say that it was right.

Auto RU. In my opinion, the article is written.
Due to the fact that for the manufacture of electrical corrugation, non-burning and non-corrosive smoke-emitting polyvinyl chloride is used, the wiring in the corrugation can be mounted on any building structures, including wooden ones.
And even on smooth PVC pipes, it is written on some that it is only fireproof or difficult to burn, then write more precisely so that everyone understands.
Zhora, about books I sometimes agree sometimes they write such bullshit that the hair is on end, but about sellers it’s another question which seller, if he speaks and confirms with certificates, why not, especially if you remember that insulation is made from the same PVC for cable including VVGngLSLS, so it’s a banal truth to buy high-quality and not to save on your safety and on someone else’s.

So I used corrugation only openly and only on concrete or brick walls, otherwise you never know what, and according to the standards if you can explain everything. But hidden or on combustible surfaces, this tin is in the end one or two defective machines and a fire is ensured, no matter how good and branded corrugation it is designed for such bullying.

For combustible structures, lay the cable in the corrugation CAN. But only OPEN.

Then give a link to the regulatory document in support of your words.

I support Zhora a link to a regulatory document in the studio. I rummaged around in the DKC catalog and found a rigid smooth PVC pipe series 6UF, it can be written on it openly for any combustibility category, but somehow it does not fight against the standards. But on the corrugation only non-combustible or non-combustible base.

You are welcome:

PUE p.

You are really addicted to security. Of course, it is better to play it safe again, but according to your logic, a plastic box in wooden houses should not be used. He, too, can burn out in the event of a short circuit.

Well, where does this fad come from? It says that if you lay a cable with a combustible sheath, for example, on a wooden wall, then the distance from the wall to the cable must be protected with a layer of non-combustible material (such as asbestos). If you really want to lay the cable in the corrugation, then in any case you have to put a layer of fireproof material according to clause 2.1.37, then there will be no contradictions. And if you just lay the cable in the corrugation along the wooden base, then paragraph 2.1.37 will be violated.

It’s hard to communicate with you. It is precisely at the point that when using a cable with insulation of NG and LS it is enough to provide either an air gap or a layer of non-combustible material. Or both. Corrugation is quite suitable, not necessarily asbestos, which, incidentally, cannot be used in residential premises. Because it is unsafe for health.

"You're really addicted to security." - Well, you give my friend !!! Why do deliberately dangerous electrical wiring? It's one thing when you do wiring for yourself. Then of course, you are your own boss, in which case you yourself will be to blame. Another thing is when you do this wiring to someone else. Who will be to blame in this case? As a rule, everyone is trying to save money and asking some local "specialist" to quickly make wiring. Such a specialist will not bother with security, will buy cheap corrugations and make quick installation, cut down money and look for it later. And then someone will live like on a powder keg with such electrical wiring.

Security cannot and should not be 100 percent. This is from industrial safety theory, if you're interested.

Upon reaching a certain percentage of security, its further improvement becomes meaningless.

Say, in our example, if the installation is performed on wooden structures in the corrugation, then the risk of fire, for example, is 0.03%. Putting asbestos under the corrugation, we get 0.01%. (everything is conditional, of course). Are costs commensurate with a change in security? I think no. And the theory confirms this.

Open wiring in a corrugation on a tree is not prohibited by the PUE, which means it is allowed. When using quality and certified cable products, of course.

And again, if I were wrong, then in a plastic box it would be impossible to pull the wiring through the tree. There are no fundamental differences. Both there and there - plastic. And in the boxes most often wiring in wooden houses and mounted. Less often - on metal strips, or on a sketch of plaster. Corrugation is rarely used only because it is not very beautiful.

Author, in the PUE a fireproof base is written, but is it a PVC pipe? Again, I crawled through the catalogs so unloved by Zhora and all the corrugation that I dug (PVC) only on the basis of non-combustible or difficult to combust material))) does not beat with your statement. A definition of fireproof material is needed, and something on the pipe says that it is fireproof, and so it only does not spread combustion.

That is, you want evidence from me that the corrugated pipe can be considered fireproof? I will look in this regard for evidence at my leisure.

Although the fact of the emergence of discussions on this topic suggests that a lot of things are not written in the rules. For me, nevertheless, the starting point for the interpretation of paragraph 2.1.37 was the unambiguous admissibility of installing a plastic cable channel in a tree that any inspection misses. Since it is possible with him, it means, in accordance with the same paragraph, and corrugation is allowed. Because there is no direct prohibition.

Again, they suspect me that I suggest using any cable. What kind of misfortune is this? Not SL, by the way, but LS. Well, it goes without saying in a wooden house, after all.

Author,
look, you can find, I honestly also rummage, since on the one hand the corrugation in the manufacturer's recommendations goes only to a non-combustible and non-combustible base, and a smooth pipe (of the same production) is already to the base of any combustibility class, which is strange as there and there PVC . At leisure, I will look at TU and GOSTs that are prescribed for them, maybe there is something interesting there.

Vladimir, it’s very nice, of course, that we so quietly switched to “you”. I’ll try to search - for me, truth is more important than my own authority and ambition.

Thanks for the amendment! As practice shows, the corrugation and PVC pipe is usually used for concealed laying on fireproof substrates to ensure the interchangeability of electrical wiring. And also when laying the cable on the outer walls on fireproof bases. In this case, the use of corrugations and PVC pipes is reasonable and installation is much easier and cheaper, and there are also no contradictions with the PUE.

I apologize for switching to "you", but this topic is also interesting to me since I am engaged in the design of power supply, including internal, and I would not want to have objects burned up due to incorrect technical decisions, and I’m not willing to substitute hyphens, and all the more people in this building to drive into the other world in groups of many people at a time))) Therefore, I always drove VVGngLS and metal without corrugation, it is only in concrete (I’m silent about the installers here).